Butterfly Mind

We talked to our kids about souls

Stream with rocks and autumn leaves, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013 on andreabadgley.com
Swinging Bridge at Babcock State Park, West Virginia, autumn on andreabadgley.com
Swinging Bridge at Babcock State Park, West Virginia

“Hey Mom, are trees living things or living beings?”

Our nine year old son looked into the forest then up at me as we hiked side by side along a gurgling brook. His dad and sister walked a few steps ahead of us. Upstream was the Glade Creek Grist Mill in West Virginia, a rustic wooden building with a pitched roof. Today its wet planks were framed by yellowing autumn trees.

Glade Creek Grist Mill, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013
Glade Creek Grist Mill, Babcock State Park, WV autumn 2013
Glade Creek Grist Mill, Babcock State Park, West Virginia October 2013
Stream with rocks and autumn leaves, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013

“I guess that depends on what you mean by living being,” I said. “I think of a being as — ” I tried to think of words that would be familiar to him. I failed. “As a sentient being — something that has a soul.” The path was littered in gold, red, and toast brown leaves, and I kicked at a drift with my leather hiking shoe.

“Personally, I think of trees as living beings,” I told him, “but I think a lot of people probably think of them as living things.” Our son looked up the mountain into the dripping forest.

“What’s a soul?” he asked.

I sucked in a big breath. “Oh boy,” I said. Up ahead, our daughter twirled a red maple leaf between her thumb and pointer finger. “Your soul, if you believe in souls, is…” I struggled to find words. “It’s the part of you that makes you you.”

“You mean like your personality?” he asked.

“No, the spirit part. The part that is left after you die,” I said, then immediately knew what was going to come next.

“So like a ghost then!” our daughter said.

This was difficult.

“Not quite.” I searched my brain, trying to find language to describe souls to a seven and a nine year old.

“Your soul is the parts of you that aren’t physical,” my husband told them. “Your feelings, memories, friendships. The emotions you feel. Love.”

Our son tilted his head. “But isn’t all that stuff just your brain?”

I looked up to the trees again, hoping for some help. There was no wind; the trees were not talking.

“Yes, that’s one way to look at it,” I said. We like to give our kids a suite of options when it comes to spirituality and religion, to let them know that there is no hard and fast answer. No agreed upon truth that works for everyone all at the same time, and that they get to choose what they believe. “Some people believe that what Dad and I are describing as spiritual — feelings, intuition, love — is purely physical. A series of chemical reactions in our brains, nothing more.”

He kicked at leaves, thinking. I was still stuck on the soul thing. I wasn’t satisfied that we’d explained what a soul is.

“Remember when we talked about reincarnation?” I asked. The kids had asked about religion several months prior, and I told them I thought there are as many paths to God as there are people on earth. Then, in typical over-informative fashion, I gave them synopses of several religions of the world: Christianity and Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism, Wicca, and Islam. The concepts of reincarnation and karma resonated with them more than the idea of heaven and hell did.

Iridescent blue green insect on dry leaf, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013 on andreabadgley.com
Our son’s ambition: to be a bug

“Yeah.” He looked up at me. He remembered the reincarnation talk. “Like I could come back as a bug!” This excited him, the idea of coming back as a bug.

“Remember how I said that when you die some people believe you go to heaven or hell, or in the case of reincarnation, you might come back as something else – another person, or maybe a bug?” I said. “The soul is the part of you that would go from one life to the next, that would go into that bug after your body died. It’s the part that would carry everything you learned in each incarnation.”  I gestured uselessly to my heart. “The spirit part.”

My brain hurt from the effort of describing this. Soul, sentient, spirit. How do you explain these things? “But reincarnation is just one idea. Brain chemistry is another.”

“So nobody knows the real answer,” our son said. “What happens when we die, whether our feelings are just our brain or part of our soul.”

“Nope. It all depends on what you believe,” I said. “Nobody knows for sure.”

The leaves in the trees rustled a little. Not much, but enough to remind me of our son’s original question.

Green, red, yellow leaves Babcock state park, WV, October 2013
Appalachian Valley in early autumn, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013
Autumn leaves on grassy hill, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013
Golden tree (beech?) in sunbeam, autumn, Appalachia

“I think mostly people think humans have souls, and maybe animals have souls, but I don’t know that a lot of people think of plants as having souls. So most people would probably call trees living things.” I looked up at the green and orange and yellow and red leaves, and the strong trunks with rough or papery or chunky bark, and I saw how all those trees were nestled together as a community on the mountainside, gathering sunlight, being beautiful. I thought about the times that I have felt one with the whispering forest, when there was no doubt in my heart, or mind, or soul that trees are part of the same absolute that I am a part of, that we are kindred.

“Do you ever feel a connection to nature?” I asked our son. “Like, in your heart, a feeling that doesn’t have words, you just feel it when you’re out in the woods or by a stream or something?” It was my last hope, in this “thing” versus “being” discussion, that he would know what I was talking about.

“Yes.” He said this without hesitation, and I knew he would get it now.

“Me too,” I said. “Sometimes when a breeze blows through and the trees sway and their leaves rustle, I feel like they are talking. I don’t know what they are saying, but they are saying something.” I looked up to the forest again. “In their tree language.” Our son giggled. “I feel connected to them somehow, like they have spirits, or souls, or whatever you want to call it.”

“So when I think of trees,” I said, “I think of them as living beings and not just living things.”

Our son’s eyes flared with understanding as he looked up at me. “Yes,” he said. His body relaxed with the contentment of a seeker who has found the answer he sought. “I think you’re exactly right, Mom.”

Yellow is autumn trees to me. Originally published October 17, 2013.

Andrea Badgley

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214 responses to “We talked to our kids about souls”

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  2. Good running I really enjoyed reading it and its very thoughtful question sometime children have better answers then we adults.

  6. This is a beautiful post!

    I love your photos. So much beauty and life within nature. I also find it incredibly heartwarming to read about the bonding experience and the active memories that you’re creating and cultivating with your family.

    Children have such beautiful and infinitely curious minds. I think it’s wonderful how you were dedicated to finding a detailed explanation to ensure that your son understood instead of brushing off the topic.

    Have a great day!

    -Tallulah

  9. Wonderful post. Wonderful story. Wonderful parenting and education. Beautiful photography. I am so impressed, thank you for the breath of fresh air! 🙂

  11. I enjoyed reading about the conversation you had with your child on this particular topic. We’ve had similar conversations in our home. My wife is Hindu and I’m still recovering from my Catholic upbringing. Given that Hindu’s don’t believe in hell I took on explaining that concept to my kids. We exposed them to the singular concept that flows through all of Hinduism — that there are many paths and everything (not just living things) is connected. Toss in some Stars Wars Jedi quotes, and articles on genetics, quantum mechanics and computer science and you might understand how complicated the discussion became.

    Kudos to you for helping your sone work through it.

  13. Those photographs are amazing. It makes me feel calm. I wish to visit places like that.

  15. Reblogged this on My Soul and Similar Nonsense and commented:
    A beautifully told story that resonates with me. I really love the way the parents explain such abstract ideas, especially when I’ve been told “whatever you believe is real” by my mum.

  18. Wonderful photos.

    Everybody is going to feel strongly about their belief on your topic. When I was in college I took a course called “world religions” at Seton Hall University in South Orange New Jersey. I got perspective on how every religion views the soul and God. But when my kids asked me the same question I had to defer to my priest because I had a real difficult time explaining things to them. One question lead to another and I figured he was better equipped to answer than me. Kudos to you for taking on such a difficult conversation with your kids. 🙂

  19. Well done. Many people have many answers to this question.
    You did a good job of sharing yours.

  25. This is so beautiful, I felt my own soul hum as I read this. That feeling of being lost in the mountains and that curious connection with nature can even make the most sceptical person question everything your son did. Perfect 🙂

  28. Everything about this post is just beautiful! Beautiful words! Beautiful photos! Beautiful family! May God’s blessing go your way til then! 🙂

  30. What a great energy your family has @Butterfly Mind. Your kids will grow up to very opened minded to many aspects of life which is extraordinary. Not many kids will gain wisdom like these kids have.

    Everything around us is LIVING information no matter what type of energy “things” are.

    NAMASTE!

    P.S GREAT PICS!

  35. It’s sounds like you and your son were really sharing a special moment. He was clearly feeling very connected to himself and to that incredibly inspiring and beautiful nature you were lucky enough to experience there – and from there connection with everything. I love your photos – this place looks totally gorgeous! I’d love to visit it one day. We talk to our children about the fact of soul, spirit (two very different aspects of us – the spirit is the separated aspect of the soul and stubbornly resists it) reincarnation (we have had many, many lives) and the fact that everything is energy, all of the time. In fact most days don’t go by without reference to the choices we are making and the energetic consequences of them. It is a dialogue that is natural as what we talk about aren’t ideas but are deeply felt responses that come from the inner heart and body and in that connection there is a knowing that is not based on faith but on lived experience.

  40. Nice picture! I love nature and I find so much peace when I get to visit, but I just wanted to share the reason why some of us see plants or animals as living things and not necessarily as living beings its just because of the fact that they don’t have a much of a say. They live by natural instincts which does not give them the ability to make decisions for themselves like living beings with a “soul” can. It is a privilege to be at the “top” of the “food chain” and we are responsible to look after and care for our plants and other living things.

  41. Reblogged this on mycaren and commented:
    “Are trees living things or living beings?” A question of 9 years old boy.
    I love all green nature, but never ever think about it.
    A great question and great answer.

  43. Even I believe that trees are living beings.It may be strange but I really feel a connection with forests and landscapes.There are things we may not know but we feel them.

    Great post with awesome photographs.

  44. Loved that you cared less about a right and wrong and more about him trusting how he feels, learning to listen to that young, pure, innocent and discerning voice in his heart early can only help him as he grows.
    Good job. And i feel certain every living thing has some kind of relationship with its creator, some kind of spirit or essence…very refreshing.

      • Hey, its fine with me if the “trees” creator is atoms, molecules, physics and nature. Ultimately we are all made of the same basic components. By emphasizing “we” I implied that id like to rsise my children to be anle to hear other peoples truth and not feel compelled to argue just accept what true for them…I am not conflicted. ☺️

      • But that’s what I mean… Truth is not “other people’s.” Truth is truth regardless of people’s opinions about what is true, and all we can do is evaluate those opinions based on evidence and reason.

      • Clearly you’re looking for an arguement of some sort and that’s fine. What I am talking about is something referred to as “personal truth” I would not approach an athiest, a christian, a muslim, jew, buddhist (pardon the non capitalizations) and expect them to agree on what “the truth” is regarding a creator/creation souls or the afterlife. I would see them as people, entitled to their perspective and beliefs and there-in hold them sacred.
        What I am willing to argue about is how we treat each other, people, animals, different cultures, everything, not in getting a consensus on a set of beliefs. I think young people still feel that “truth” and many of them become idealist in thier young adulthood. Eventually it gets harder and harder to hold onto as we form calluses and are conditioned.
        I respect that this writer/parent is nurishing that aspect of listening to the quiet voice in each of us that speaks and guides us.

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