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We talked to our kids about souls

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Swinging Bridge at Babcock State Park, West Virginia, autumn on andreabadgley.com
Swinging Bridge at Babcock State Park, West Virginia

“Hey Mom, are trees living things or living beings?”

Our nine year old son looked into the forest then up at me as we hiked side by side along a gurgling brook. His dad and sister walked a few steps ahead of us. Upstream was the Glade Creek Grist Mill in West Virginia, a rustic wooden building with a pitched roof. Today its wet planks were framed by yellowing autumn trees.

Glade Creek Grist Mill, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013
Glade Creek Grist Mill, Babcock State Park, WV autumn 2013
Glade Creek Grist Mill, Babcock State Park, West Virginia October 2013
Stream with rocks and autumn leaves, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013

“I guess that depends on what you mean by living being,” I said. “I think of a being as — ” I tried to think of words that would be familiar to him. I failed. “As a sentient being — something that has a soul.” The path was littered in gold, red, and toast brown leaves, and I kicked at a drift with my leather hiking shoe.

“Personally, I think of trees as living beings,” I told him, “but I think a lot of people probably think of them as living things.” Our son looked up the mountain into the dripping forest.

“What’s a soul?” he asked.

I sucked in a big breath. “Oh boy,” I said. Up ahead, our daughter twirled a red maple leaf between her thumb and pointer finger. “Your soul, if you believe in souls, is…” I struggled to find words. “It’s the part of you that makes you you.”

“You mean like your personality?” he asked.

“No, the spirit part. The part that is left after you die,” I said, then immediately knew what was going to come next.

“So like a ghost then!” our daughter said.

This was difficult.

“Not quite.” I searched my brain, trying to find language to describe souls to a seven and a nine year old.

“Your soul is the parts of you that aren’t physical,” my husband told them. “Your feelings, memories, friendships. The emotions you feel. Love.”

Our son tilted his head. “But isn’t all that stuff just your brain?”

I looked up to the trees again, hoping for some help. There was no wind; the trees were not talking.

“Yes, that’s one way to look at it,” I said. We like to give our kids a suite of options when it comes to spirituality and religion, to let them know that there is no hard and fast answer. No agreed upon truth that works for everyone all at the same time, and that they get to choose what they believe. “Some people believe that what Dad and I are describing as spiritual — feelings, intuition, love — is purely physical. A series of chemical reactions in our brains, nothing more.”

He kicked at leaves, thinking. I was still stuck on the soul thing. I wasn’t satisfied that we’d explained what a soul is.

“Remember when we talked about reincarnation?” I asked. The kids had asked about religion several months prior, and I told them I thought there are as many paths to God as there are people on earth. Then, in typical over-informative fashion, I gave them synopses of several religions of the world: Christianity and Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism, Wicca, and Islam. The concepts of reincarnation and karma resonated with them more than the idea of heaven and hell did.

Iridescent blue green insect on dry leaf, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013 on andreabadgley.com
Our son’s ambition: to be a bug

“Yeah.” He looked up at me. He remembered the reincarnation talk. “Like I could come back as a bug!” This excited him, the idea of coming back as a bug.

“Remember how I said that when you die some people believe you go to heaven or hell, or in the case of reincarnation, you might come back as something else – another person, or maybe a bug?” I said. “The soul is the part of you that would go from one life to the next, that would go into that bug after your body died. It’s the part that would carry everything you learned in each incarnation.”  I gestured uselessly to my heart. “The spirit part.”

My brain hurt from the effort of describing this. Soul, sentient, spirit. How do you explain these things? “But reincarnation is just one idea. Brain chemistry is another.”

“So nobody knows the real answer,” our son said. “What happens when we die, whether our feelings are just our brain or part of our soul.”

“Nope. It all depends on what you believe,” I said. “Nobody knows for sure.”

The leaves in the trees rustled a little. Not much, but enough to remind me of our son’s original question.

Green, red, yellow leaves Babcock state park, WV, October 2013
Appalachian Valley in early autumn, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013
Autumn leaves on grassy hill, Babcock State Park, WV October 2013
Golden tree (beech?) in sunbeam, autumn, Appalachia

“I think mostly people think humans have souls, and maybe animals have souls, but I don’t know that a lot of people think of plants as having souls. So most people would probably call trees living things.” I looked up at the green and orange and yellow and red leaves, and the strong trunks with rough or papery or chunky bark, and I saw how all those trees were nestled together as a community on the mountainside, gathering sunlight, being beautiful. I thought about the times that I have felt one with the whispering forest, when there was no doubt in my heart, or mind, or soul that trees are part of the same absolute that I am a part of, that we are kindred.

“Do you ever feel a connection to nature?” I asked our son. “Like, in your heart, a feeling that doesn’t have words, you just feel it when you’re out in the woods or by a stream or something?” It was my last hope, in this “thing” versus “being” discussion, that he would know what I was talking about.

“Yes.” He said this without hesitation, and I knew he would get it now.

“Me too,” I said. “Sometimes when a breeze blows through and the trees sway and their leaves rustle, I feel like they are talking. I don’t know what they are saying, but they are saying something.” I looked up to the forest again. “In their tree language.” Our son giggled. “I feel connected to them somehow, like they have spirits, or souls, or whatever you want to call it.”

“So when I think of trees,” I said, “I think of them as living beings and not just living things.”

Our son’s eyes flared with understanding as he looked up at me. “Yes,” he said. His body relaxed with the contentment of a seeker who has found the answer he sought. “I think you’re exactly right, Mom.”

Yellow is autumn trees to me. Originally published October 17, 2013.

214 thoughts on “We talked to our kids about souls”

  1. Your writing left me sad. I realize it’s a part of the societies of the world to consider truth as a relative portion, or proposition. And its so sad to admit that most parents are teaching these same things to their children.

    I know the truth is absolute. And I know the God who is true. I don’t mean that as if I might accuse you or offer a challenge. I would be lying if I sympathized with the confusion you own.

    The world perceives the body as first. The soul is always a secondary consideration. In many writings of Christianity we find men referring to the body as a bag of blood.

    I realize it’s demeaning to think of the body in such a way. But isn’t that because we have been taught that what is deteriorating is more important than that which lasts forever? The entire focus of the world is on what a man may gain for himself. Christianity teaches us that we are nothing more than receivers.

    Regardless, I understand the difficulty in explaining the soul. Suffice it to say, “It will take an entire lifetime for you to understand”.

    But how can understand and come if there is no foundation on which we stand in regard to truth? If everything is relative that nothing can be known.

    So very much to say about this, so very little opportunity. But how could I possibly read your post without making this comment?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hello Hiwaychristian. I know God to be absolute too. I know this because I have connected to the truth that I come from him and am therefore his equal. I may not live this everyday, but his energy lives in me. It is there every time I choose to connect to it. This is my foundation for everyday. Truth is a constant terminal. As a humanity it is us who have chosen to bastardise it and deviate away from it because in truth we can not bear the idea that we separated from it. Our journey on Earth is to learn where we come from and to live the truth once more. With allowing, understanding and love (the stillness of God) we will come back to who we already are – already the sons of God and masters of love and wisdom. It stops becoming complicated and in one moment – in the simple intention to connect and by breathing gently -there is clarity of soul. We only have to choose to let it in.

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      1. If we are all sons of God, why did his Son have to die in our hands? There is a whole lot said in the New Testament about being a son of God. None of it applies to humanity as a whole.

        I have not achieved, but we are told that the sons of God do the Holy will of the Holy Father. I perceive by your words, that you believe inclusion is first not second. As if it is simply a state of mind to receive the grace of God.

        I don’t mean to argue with you. But there are questions that need to be answered.
        I find it curious that humanity is often afraid to even ask the questions let alone receive the answers.

        One such question might be, why do we find it necessary to change who we are at all? And the next one is simply a logical progression, how much change reaches satisfactory?

        Thoughts to ponder.

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      2. Hello Highwaychristian. The Christain perspective comes from a book that was written 400 years after the death of Jesus. How could those who wrote the bible 400 years after the events recorded who did not personally know Jesus or live his teachings be expected to record everything faithfully? Whilst the bible without doubt contains many truths there are still many things that are contradictory and confusing about its teachings. A lot of it does not make sense! Like why would God have to prove his love for us by sending his son to die for our sins?! This sounds so arrogant and perverse it leaves a nauseous feeling in my stomach! If God is love, which undoubtedly he is, then simply common sense dictates, let alone actually connecting to that love, that this is not a loving act. Could this possibly be a misinterpretation that is designed to keep humanity feeling lesser, small and unworthy? One thing that does make sense is the teaching that “the Kingdom of heaven is inside you”. I have found that the more I connect to what is within, rather than looking outward for recognition and confirmation, the deeper my connection to God is. This connection is reflected in those gorgeous moments that Andrea and her son shared. The love of God is reflected everywhere and when connected to myself I have felt it in the grandness and smallness of nature, in the knowledge that the universe is vast and ordered, in the smile of another and in an innocent and playful child who is simply joyful at just being. The scale of creation is infinite and planet Earth is just a small particle of this, yet it plays its part. I have found that God is in all things and that includes me. If God is in me and I am of God then I am his equal son, just as Jesus was – no less. That therefore makes me incredibly special, makes us all incredibly special, makes us all the same, makes us all unified.

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      3. You have two problems. You don’t understand the nature of the word “Holy”. And you think way too highly of humanity.

        Either of these are unusual for someone to summarily dismisses The Living Word of God. And you don’t know who Jesus is.

        You are busily trying to define the nature of God by the mind of man. It simply can’t be done. The mind of man will praise man. But the things of the Spirit of God are understood only by receiving from God.

        The Bible is not just an old book. And it is by no means outdated. The Bible is the Living Word of God.

        I can’t help you any farther than this. I suggest you read Matthew Mark Luke and John. Do not read them with an open mind. Try to read them with a humble and believing heart.

        I can tell you something that may be of value to you. I have come to know the living God personally. But this relationship did not come about because I was a studious man. It has come to me because God have mercy to teach me.

        The mind of man is proud of man. And to such a mind God shows himself as shrewd. But to the one who admits they know nothing, God is willing to reveal himself in part, according to his own wisdom.

        He has caused me to believe to the point that I know I will live with him forever. And I have proof in my soul because I am learning to do the things God requires of man.

        It is impossible to share the fullness of Christianity with you. For the things of Christ are understood only by the Spirit of God. The things of man and his pride are a direct enemy of the humility necessary to approach the living God.

        As for being an equal to Jesus, that is an absolute impossibility. When Jesus walked among us he was God himself. For he and the Father are one. It is a great mistake to think of Jesus as simply a man.

        The first chapter of john tells it more beautifully. But since you dismiss the Bible as useless and archaic, it does me no good to quote it to you. Perhaps you perceive the impasse.

        This is why I said reading your words made me sad. And nothing you have spoken since, has giving me hope for you.

        It is absolutely necessary that everyone humble themselves before God and accept what God has to say about his own Holy and Righteous Son.

        As for the Old Testament being disconnected from Jesus, again you make a mistake of not understanding who Jesus is. He has been with the father since the beginning of eternity. This is a concept that the mind of man is not capable of digesting. So how can equality with God be even a remote possibility? And I have not even open the subject of sin with you.

        I will tell you what the Lord says to everyone. Humble yourself and learn to be willing to believe. The pride of man thinks he has all the answers. But the humility God gives his people has no pride in it at all.

        Unless you are willing to pray. Unless you are willing to read that “archaic book”. Unless you are willing to take a long hard look at the sin which is so vibrant within you. You will never move one step closer to the living God.

        I have already gone on farther than I should. It takes so much time and energy for one person to teach another about these things. When God can reveal great volumes in less than a heartbeat. You do not debate with me. Your debate needs to be with Jesus, the Son of the living God.

        By His Grace.

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      4. I won’t pester you any more than what you ask. But I have thought a great deal about your words.

        One series of thought keeps coming to the surface. “What if?”

        What if what I say to you is true?

        Regardless your earnest intent, what if what you have been teaching your children is lies?

        What if God has allowed me to pass near you, as if on the street? What if your “ears” have actually now heard the truth of eternity?

        What if the Gospel of Christ Jesus is the only avenue to eternal life?

        What if you turn away from considering these things?

        You teach your children well. By their willingness to ask you questions, I see that they consider you a valid teacher.

        But what if what you are teaching them is incomplete? What will become of you? What will become of them?

        I will not write to you again unless you write to me to ask. But with all sincerity, may God open your eyes to understand.

        By His Grace.

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      5. Hi michelle:) I come from a regilion that belives the bible to be a true book when translated correctly. We also belive that through the years parts of it were taken out. Eather because someone in power removed it or it got lost in transcription. We do belive that what is in it is true, and we have another book of scripture from the perspective of people in the americas. It is in correlation with the bible. We belive that through it and modern revalation some of those principles that same contradicting make sense togeather. For exsample we belive that our sprits are childern of God and we came to earth so that we could gain a body and become more like him, thus making another step in our eternal progression. We belive that Christ like us is a sprit child of God, but unlike us he also has has some physical DNA from God (he was still human and mortal but he had that in him as well, this is why he was the only begotten of the Father, because he was the only physically begotten)also we belive he is perfect

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      6. Hi Michelle:) I come from religion that believes that the Bible is true book however parts of it were taken out.either inflectional leaders took it out where it was lost in transcription.we have another because scripture that also there’s testimony of Christ that correlates with the Bible. It tells of the people on the Americas around that time.we believe that through this book and for modern revelation we can understand seemingly contradictory principles in the Bible.for example we believe that we are sprit children of God. We also believe Christ is a spirit child of God but unlike us we believe that while he was human he had physical DNA from God.we also believe that he was perfect never sined,never made mistakes. Because of this he was able to overcome death and sin. These resons made it possable for him to go through the atonment were we could not. We belive that God does love us and this earth and that atonment are expressions of that love. He did not send someone to die for us that would be overcome by death, but someone who could overcome it and sin so that we could to. Thus becoming as God perfect reserected beings. We are not equalls with God yet as he is capable of so much more than us, but we do have little bits of him in us and can become like him through that atonment. We might be little spects in the universe but we are important to him and that makes us special. I agree that we are childern of God and that might mean somthing differnt to you that it does to me but I also agree that this earth is an expression of love for us, and through it we can understaind Him beter. I do belive that the atontment is also an expression of love however, because God sent someone with the capabilty to save us from death, sin and the hardships of this life. You have your own veiws but I wanted to share my for the use on God and his son Jesus Christ and there look for us I hope you have a good day.

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  3. Beautifully written and explained. i wish i could write as well and if I have kids I would like to teach them in a similar way..to accept and understand thought behind religions among other things…

    Beautiful photos too

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Thoughtful post. I ran across your blog in the Freshly Pressed feature on WordPress. Beautiful photos! I find that I can determine my own understanding of a subject by evaluating how well I can do explaining it to a ten year old.

    Your statement that “It all depends on what you believe” can be a dangerous one though. This statement leads one to believe that we determine truth, when in fact, Truth stands quite apart from us, regardless of what we believe about it. There are absolutes in the universe. The question is not whether there ARE absolutes, just whether we can know what they are, and how that can happen.

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  19. This is incredible. What a wonderful thing to talk to your kids about. I love that you explained other religions to them. A way to achieve peace and tolerence is through understanding and it seems as though you are raising magnificient children.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. This is beautifully written, and the photos that accompany definitely help to set the scene. The conversation you describe really reflects the types that I have had with my own children. Though I am not religious, I encourage my children to learn about the multitude of options concerning ideologies available to them. Karma is a notion that is particularly interesting to them, especially to my tender-hearted seven year old. There is a quote from a show I enjoy that takes a rational and scientific view on reincarnation…
    “I like to think about the first law of thermodynamics, that no energy in the universe is created and… none is destroyed. That means that every bit of energy inside us, every particle will go on to be a part of something else. Maybe live as a dragonfish, a microbe, maybe burn in a supernova ten billion years from now. And every part of us now was once a part of some other thing – a moon, a storm cloud, a mammoth. A monkey. Thousands and thousands of other beautiful things that were just as terrified to die as we are. We gave them new life. Good one, I hope.” (Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)

    So, maybe, the soul is the collection of our energy, the culmination of our experiences, feelings, personality.

    An amazing post– I enjoyed it immensely.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. I really enjoyed the post. I love the simple language you used to relate a complex idea to your children. If I may, I’ll share what I’ll be teaching my children. The “soul” or “spirit” that exists in living things; plants, animals, humans, bacteria etc; is made from intelligence. I believe that intelligence was used by God to create the spirits of his creations and that the bodies of the creations reflect the formation of the spirit. Trees are alive and share the same kind of intelligence that we are made of, only, animals have more intelligence than plants, and humans have more intelligence than both. Contact me if you want to know more. You can find everything I believe at mormon.org or lds.org. God bless you in your efforts to properly raise your children.

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  32. I have difficulties explaining those stuff to my kids as well. Their brains has been influenced by technology and media, it’s hard for me to explain this matter the best way they can understand. This is a great article and I love the way you drive the conversation with you kids. =)

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  33. Hello Butterfly Mind,
    Wow! This such an awesome, reflective post and your photos work so well with the text to richly convey this moment. I have had similar discussions with our kids but from a Christian perspective. We’ve had to have a number of serious discussions with the kids about my health and naturally these issues come up. Thanks for sharing xx Rowena

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  34. Reblogged this on beyondtheflow and commented:
    My kids have asked me some very deep and probing questions over the years and this post beautifully captures those moments as she talks about when her son asked whether trees living things or living beings. How are we humble parents meant to answer these questions? While we explain things to our kids through a Christian lens, here’s how this Mum’s replied xx Rowena.

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  35. Your beautiful post took me back to the many conversations I had with my daughter when she was small. I tried explaining my own beliefs, that we are all part of the world, and when we die the atoms that make us up go back into the world to make something else, which may be a tree, or a bug, or another person. I called this (privately) my “composting cosmology” and kids mostly didn’t like it. My daughter (age 4) chose to believe that “fairies dinged the world alive” and moved onto the next fiendish question “Why do people have to die?” Argh.
    Congratulations on great parenting.

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  39. Excellent writing!

    It really flowed nicely. Very easy to read.

    Like many others I would have to respectfully disagree with your statement that “Nobody knows for sure.” History, eye witness accounts and a plethora of documentation surrounding the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ are evidence of what will happen to those who follow and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ when they die.

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)

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  47. I like the way you discuss with your kids and aren’t afraid to introduce new words and then see if they ask more questions. Do you think that telling them that no one knows the answers to these (the biggest) questions could leave them feeling hopeless in the end, as you, their parents, are the main ones to be able to guide them toward truth? I personally, believe confidently that I do know the answer so it’s not hard to share that with my kids. Just wondering 🙂

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  50. That’s how brain should work when talking to young ones, they needed alot of explanations and elaborations for them to get into what you realy wanted them to understand… I guess I need to get ready when my boy starts to ask brain cracking questions… so luv those photos😍

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